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Zecco.com » General Investing » Screening & Picking » Don't listen to the "Experts&q...
Last post 05-03-2008, 8:56 PM by Coco Rosie. 52 replies.
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  •  04-11-2008, 7:25 AM 26805

    Don't listen to the "Experts" on CNBC

    Reply Quote
    We are not anywhere close to a bottom in this market.  With this being the worst financial crisis since the depression, it is more realistic to see this as being a 3-5 year bear market and not a 3-5 month slowdown.  Trade accordingly.
  •  04-11-2008, 8:32 AM 26806 in reply to 26805

    Re: Don't listen to the "Experts" on CNBC

    Reply Quote
    I do not see this being 3-5 years bear market, but definetely it is not 3-5 months slowdown either.
  •  04-11-2008, 9:03 AM 26807 in reply to 26806

    Re: Don't listen to the "Experts" on CNBC

    Reply Quote
    If the "experts" are wrong, what will be the odds for us being right.   Therefore, I don't listen to anyone else either.   The stock market is like the casino, don't play unless you can afford to lose.
  •  04-11-2008, 9:08 AM 26808 in reply to 26806

    Re: Don't listen to the "Experts" on CNBC

    Reply Quote
    If you really do your homework you will know when the next bear market will officially start.  When everything goes down folks will be so scared to buy stocks that by the time folks realize it will be late in the trend going back up.  The news is there to influence decisions and it does what it is suppose to do.  If you look at the futures market for the DOW there is definitely some serious stuff brewing.  Example the DOW closed at 12582 for the public and the range of the DOW was 12639-12427 after market for most.  Over a 200 point range while most folks were sleep.  That is no where near the normal range. 
  •  04-11-2008, 9:51 AM 26809 in reply to 26808

    Re: Don't listen to the "Experts" on CNBC

    Reply Quote
    The Dow appears to be range-bound between 11,700-ish and 12,740-ish.

    Since March 11, the Dow has been in a modest uptrend, but it failed to break through the afore-mentioned resistance level of roughly 12,740.

    This morning the selling is insane, the ARMS index is above 2...  wow.  I wonder how many points the DOW will loose today, I wish I hadn't gone long GOOG and GS yesterday...   but anyway, I don't think this economic slowdown is the end of world, and also remember that the stock market recovers before the economy does.

    (Disclaimer, I am a newbie).
  •  04-11-2008, 11:25 AM 26813 in reply to 26805

    Re: Don't listen to the "Experts" on CNBC

    Reply Quote

    Well, there is record cash on the sidelines.  The ARMS Index is flashing a strong "BUY".  Interest rates and government stimulus are providing a backwind for the next 6 months.  Valuations on the S&P are below their normal range during low interest rate periods.  Oh, did I mention that sentiment is at ALL-TIME lows?  People are more bearish now than they were in 2001-2002!  Add it all up.  We're in for a big rally.  The only question is when.  But it can't last too long, Bernake & Co. have already planted the seeds for future inflation, Japan-style.

  •  04-11-2008, 12:16 PM 26819 in reply to 26805

    Re: Don't listen to the "Experts" on CNBC

    Reply Quote
    There is always money to be made in any market. T.V. is there for what it is..... entertainment. Use it as such.
  •  04-11-2008, 12:42 PM 26820 in reply to 26813

    Re: Don't listen to the "Experts" on CNBC

    Reply Quote
    pilgrim:

    ....Bernake & Co. have already planted the seeds for future inflation, Japan-style.



    Jap printed money to pay off gov debt
    Our gov is printing money to pay off consumer debt

    There is a difference, unless I am missing something.

    Although I do agree that printing money to pay debts contributes to our already sad inflation problem.
  •  04-11-2008, 1:09 PM 26821 in reply to 26820

    Re: Don't listen to the "Experts" on CNBC

    Reply Quote
    I agree that the last time we hit 11,900, we were at the beginning of the end of this financial crisis. While the balance sheets of the major investment firms are very highly leveraged (and that's very risky), it appears that we dodged a bullet. While in the depression, bank failures resulted in a 12-25% unemployment rate (depending on when in the depression you were), the bank failures of the late 1980s, early 1990s didn't affect the market. I think we are in the latter type of market.

    If you combine the effects of the 1974 recession, 1991 recession, 2001 and 2002 slow market economies, and the current slow-market economy/recession, than maybe you get a Japan of 1989. There's one ingredient that you need for a depression, like we had in 1929 besides these four recessions being combined into one since they all affected the market differently, and the key word is protectionism.

    I am a major proponent of believing that protectionism is dangerous. Sometimes, recessions are just what the doctor ordered because growth occurred too fast. I think by having a recession, you prevent from having a massive downturn like we had in 1929 or that Japan had in 1989. If China realizes the capital it can get from investing in U.S. capital instead of holding our debt, the interest rates on US Treasury debt would increase substantially.

    The 1981 recession was mainly caused by inflation, while the other recessions were deflationary in which the effect of inflation was lightened. In 1974, the recession was caused by an oil crisis and widespread panic like we have today, 1991 was due to a housing crisis in which homes had risen too rapidly in price, 20001 was due to irrational exuberance in the market(s) especially in regards to tech & biotech, and the current market is due to housing prices rising too fast and what I believe to be a false fear that the economy will crumble. The fundamentals truly don't support that hypothesis since most companies maintain very low inventories and a lot of cash on hand. I think because it's only the financial sector that's highly leveraged, companies borrow for opportunity to reinvest at a higher rate but whereby they don't need to borrow; it's merely a preference instead. In other words, if interest rates on borrowing rose, these firms would likely be able to pay more cash for things and not be forced into the higher interest rate.

    On the other hand, it's hard to find bargains in the market. SLB, AAPL, CELG, MON, TROW, EXC, or even PRU are well off their lows. If you buy a retail stock or a financial, you would have to wait till the end of the crisis to cash in on this. However, if retail is a dying industry like manufacturing was in the early 1980s, it might become a dying industry whose assets can only go lower. In other words, retail wouldn't explode like what happens in a bankruptcy, but instead implode from slower growth year after year after year.

    Aqua
  •  04-11-2008, 2:10 PM 26822 in reply to 26806

    Re: Don't listen to the "Experts" on CNBC

    Reply Quote
    Man oh man we sure are getting a lot of good thoughts on this site now.
    I am impressed with the quality of folks who are posting now days.
    just my 02cents 
    I thought I saw some place that the total % of housing forclose is like less than 1% of total market
    I was wondering if someone who knows would confirm..
    If that is true what about the profit from the other 99% that are not going down.
    could it be that the media and big investors want us to think the sky is falling SELL  !!!! SELL !!!!
    So they can scoop up stock at rock bottom...

    I thought the whole idea is to sell high and buy low... seems like a good idea...
    The very last thing a investor should do is let someone else think for them.
    protect yourself. start small learn the market.  and make your  (your) own mind up....
    be smart and safe...
    bwtrpilot
  •  04-11-2008, 2:44 PM 26824 in reply to 26822

    Re: Don't listen to the "Experts" on CNBC

    Reply Quote
    To each his own.....after seeing the price action on Monday I started shorting the hell out of the market on Tuesday.  Right now....my account is up 20.9% this week.
  •  04-11-2008, 3:09 PM 26827 in reply to 26824

    Re: Don't listen to the "Experts" on CNBC

    Reply Quote
    jackg1606:
    To each his own.....after seeing the price action on Monday I started shorting the hell out of the market on Tuesday.  Right now....my account is up 20.9% this week.


    Nice work!  I don't know what I was thinking when I went long yesterday, I'm getting hammered.  I think I will grit my teeth and hold because I think the Dow is range-bound.  But I didn't look at the dow charts before I opened these longs yesterday, that was my mistake.
  •  04-11-2008, 3:20 PM 26829 in reply to 26827

    Re: Don't listen to the "Experts" on CNBC

    Reply Quote
    First of all, I love CNBC.  Its a great resource if you use is correctly. They provide alot of information, thats their job.  However, they are human - so they will make mistakes just as you and I do everyday.  As far as the economy, I dont think it will recover this year, I think the stimulus checks will give it a boost and then it will fall again.  I dont think the bottom is here, but it is coming. However, I dont agree that it will take 3-56 years to recover..  I am thinking that we will be doing well near the end of q2-09.  I believe that this economy is very resilient, and that we can get beaten down, but we will prevail and move ahead. For the time being  it will be interesting, or get more interesting.