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The Zecco Inside Scoop

High-Inflation or Deflation Spiral: You Choose!

There's a debate we've been having around the water cooler (or really, the coffee maker) here at Zecco and I wanted to open it up to the community and get your take.


Our QA Manager, Marc Arnold, thinks we're heading for an inflationary period. He argues that the Fed has pumped so much money into the economy that there will be too many dollars chasing too few goods. He told me, "The crux of the inflation worry is that Fed money is chasing growth that may be very hard to get – and may flood the U.S. in more money than necessary. Maybe this does not result in inflation, but rather a further devaluation of the currency."


Our CMO, Gabriel Dalporto, corroborates the inflation concern, but primarily because he thinks the long and sustained trade imbalance is putting a lot of pressure on the dollar, which will make all those imported goods more expensive. Here's his two cents, "You can't take in more than you give back forever. Eventually the Chinese are going to want something in exchange for all of those cheap computers and VCRs we've been borrowing."


Personally, I'm less worried about inflation unless oil prices skyrocket again in which case I could see the possibility of some double-digit inflation. I don't, however, think we'll face hyper-inflation. That would require a serious collapse of the economy that we're nowhere near in my opinion.


On the other side of the cooler is COO Allard Luchsinger. He believes that all the fiscal and monetary stimuli won't be enough to re-invigorate the economy, and as a result people will hold off on purchases. "Think about it, that house you've been eyeing is 20% cheaper than a year ago. But you think it will go down more, so you're not buying. That lack of demand will put further pressure on prices and they will fall further."


All good points, no?


So now I turn it over to you. Are you concerned about inflation? Do you think deflation is inevitable? Do you think this is just fodder for alarmists, or is there a real concern here? Give me your thoughts in the comments below!


Published Wednesday, July 22, 2009 10:00 PM by Jeroen Veth - CEO
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Comments

 

blackhawksc said:

A little more worried about inflation than deflation. Deflation is
much easier to control. But you're seeing a huge shift in consumer
behavior throughout all income classes. This demand reduction should keep inflation in check for quite a while.

I also don't buy the argument that the Fed can't control inflation because it has printed too much money. Most of the "printing" was in fact asset
purchases of mortgage related securities and treasuries that it can
simply dump right back on to the market when it thinks there's
ample liquidity (ie Maiden Lane I/II/III assets). Beyond that, they
have a myriad of traditional tools like setting overnight rates
and regulating the reserve ratios of big banks to reduce the money supply in the system. The Fed does have all the tools it needs to combat both deflation and inflation, it's just a matter of using it correctly.
July 24, 2009 2:12 PM
 

bobbell said:

I think we are heading for a recap of the Carter economy.
Good old Stagflation, with a weak defense and foreign policy, out of control government spending, double digit unemployment, and an energy policy that will likely result in shortages.
I just hope they don't destroy healthcare in the process.
Read some of Milton Friedman's articles about Government abuse of the printing press.
Good luck out there.
July 25, 2009 12:26 AM
 

DianeB528 said:

The deflationary spiral was arrested. Consurmer spending habits are much more frugal, so I don't see inflation happening anytime soon. One concern is oil prices. They can be artificially manipulated by speculators in oil futures to prices far higher than supply and demand warrant. Restrictions should be placed on margins and limits should be placed on the amount of money one speculator can invest in oil futures. The Commodity Futures Modernization Act of 2000 should be essentially repealed.
July 25, 2009 11:22 AM
 

Croesus14 said:

Only the PPT (Plunge Protection Team) knows for sure.
July 26, 2009 3:55 PM
 

aquaswim47 said:

I don't think we will have hyperinflation but I do think we could have high single digit or low double digit inflation (i.e. in the 8-18% range). I also think we will avoid massive deflation or the dreaded deflationary spiral.

Ironically, it was Europe that was worried about inflation while we were worried about a repeat of the Great Depression; it is this resilience that means that I think Europe will have severe financial distress while we will have a little, but tolerable inflation. The only benefit I see from inflation is that the national debt becomes less of a burden but as we hit the breaks on inflation (with higher interest rates), it will cost more to carry each $ of debt. In a dramatic example that we had 30% inflation for 5 years, the debt would be about 22.5% of its current value so even if we had $20 trillion in debt, we effectively would have less than $5 trillion on a real basis as the debt is fortunately denominated in US dollars. It also means, however, that everyone who owns assets has a 77.5% cut in their cash portfolios.
July 26, 2009 11:43 PM
 

DanielM said:

I mentioned it on the forum post and I think its something these arguments are missing! Monetary velocity needs to pick up considerably before these arguements about inflation pick up steam. With the fed looking to raise rates sooner than later it also leads me to believe we won't be facing much deflation either.
July 28, 2009 2:36 AM
 

mark777 said:

Deflation,and the market will have a Hi Aug 3rd and a big drop to Sept 8th + or - 2 trading days. mark777sheridan@yahoo.com
July 28, 2009 10:36 AM
 

trgfunds said:

Deflation is the concern. This is a "credit" recession, not an inventory recession. Credit spends exactly like money (money is debt based) Money is therefor being destroyed, not created. The so called "spending" that the government does is covering supply destroyed by the evaporation of wealth through bad loans. Borrowing will not occur because the consumer is either not credit worthy or doesn't want to borrow, thus no new money. GDP must decline drastically (far more than it has) in order for any real, sustainable growth to occur. This is what happens when you attempt to fix a credit recession with another credit recession. Some predictions: Suckers rally will end, Dow finishes year negative, U6 will peg 20+%, rates will rise, the dollar will strengthen, The Gold crowd will be let down. etc. Thanks!
July 28, 2009 2:46 PM
 

kaubau said:

Thanks to the Fed chairman Ben Bernanke's scholarly aptitude, he did not take same action or rather inaction that happened during great depression of the 30s. One commonly argued point is that during great depression money supply was contracted(due to different reasons like dollar being pegged to gold reserve etc.)and Fed did not do anything about it and it magnified the problem. The same is not true now. Fed is acting vehemently since last September and increased money supply like anything. Technically speaking they can print as much they want since dollar is not pegged to gold anymore.
So, to me deflationary spiral is not a possibility.
The next thing that's going to happen is to reduce the money supply so that hyper inflation does not happen is for Fed to increase the interest rates, thats the only way to prevent hyper inflation. However, we are not there yet, that will happen when we know for sure that the economy has bottomed out. But, I think Fed's decision to increase the money supply also kept price of some things like housing still at a artificially high level. It still has to fall to correct the housing bubble that happened over the past 10 years.

July 29, 2009 9:29 PM
 

cidan1960 said:

Gentlemen:
I believe that both the inflation scenario and deflation scenarios are strong possibilities.  I think in the short term we will see deflation in prices of goods and services.  Then at some later point inflation, as a result of the out-of-control gov't. spending spree, will take off with a vengeance.  So, then, we will be in both a deflationary and inflationary spiral at the same time.  Yes, it is possible.  One significant "leg" that is set to fall off the stool is the Commercial Real Estate loan renewal season that is already in progress.  It's estimated that there are over 600 billion $$s in Credit Default Swaps in the Commercial Real Estate market.  Beginning this fall sometime we will start to see this fiasco start to unravel, and then you'd better hang for one wild ride, like we've never seen.  I hope I'm wrong, but I have a very uneasy feeling about what's coming.
July 31, 2009 1:58 AM
 

dean941 said:


Inflation the real question is when will it happen. Some say by the end of next year. I guess we can watch the commodities and see where they go from here would be a good gauge. Our economy is still
in a bit of trouble; since the only thing we have produced sucessfully in this country was housing. Now the supply of houses exceeds the demand. Needless to say I hope Im wrong and would rather have deflation then inflation; where I can at least buy alot of things on the cheap rather then watch my cash become worth less. However we overproduced housing that bubble burst. So now we are overproducing currency...Skeeeeeeery
August 2, 2009 10:06 PM
 

Tradertee said:

I think we need some more deflation. The truth is the only thing that so far as been deflated is wages and salaries. While the price. of housing has come down some it's still not where it should  be.The prices housing fell from was artifically created anyway due to all the crazy stuff that went on.It was only fueled by
cheap money and speculation mania. MY opinion is that the government
is trying to prop up house prices and auto prices and its not good for the economy. Both prices need to drop more to get inline with the deflation that has taken place in the job losses,wage cuts furloughs etc.
August 4, 2009 9:11 AM
 

Doe4me said:

Deflation in the future pertains to wages,home prices and U.S.Dollar.(buying power) Inflation is tied to debt,devalued Dollar and economic growth.The common denominator is the DEVALUATION OF THE DOLLAR.Combine these and you end up with HYPER INFLATION esspecially if the rest of the world dumps heavily indebted DOLLARS,TREASURIES,BONDS.This is still ignoring all the fancy derivatives that will have to be MARKET ADJUSTED.Even with robust GDP of say 6% it will take dozens of decades to repay the Federal deficit.(with a balanced budget and zero trade imbalance)
August 4, 2009 1:09 PM
 

dalekern said:

Considering all the factors at work, I'm casting my vote for inflation.

We have stimulus money flooding the economy, decreased production power, and massive national debt.  Also, China is gearing up to be a consumer-driven economy.  This will create more competition for the goods they are exporting.

Deflation relies on consumers' unwillingness (or inability) to spend.  Frankly, I don't think that is a significant part of the American Psyche.  The US consumer will spend.

Ultimately, way too many dollars chasing very few goods.   Inflation has my vote... and lots of it.
August 6, 2009 5:01 PM
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The Zecco Inside Scoop is a regular chat with Jeroen Veth, CEO of Zecco Holdings, Inc. You’ll get his first-hand account of what we’re doing at Zecco to give you the ultimate investing experience. So grab a cup of coffee and join Jeroen every week for his take on all things Zecco.

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