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The Zecco Inside Scoop

Chase Inherits Credit Card Problems

Last week Jamie Dimon, CEO of JPMorgan Chase, announced that the company inherited a bunch of bad credit card debt from WaMu. He noted that at the end of the first quarter, 12.63% of the WaMu credit card loans were deemed uncollectable and noted that number could reach as high as 18 to 24 per cent by the end of 2009, depending on the health of the economy.


Hearing this news got me a little fired up. One the one hand, the credit card companies should have been smarter about who they lent money to. They probably got a little too loose on their lending standards and offered cards to people who didn't have the means to pay them back. Shame on them.


But credit card companies aside, I think it's amazing that individuals can assume debt and not pay it off. One of the core foundations of our country is individual responsibility and I strongly believe that people have an obligation to honor their debts and not spend more than they can afford to spend.


I know that people have unforeseen circumstances in their lives such as major illnesses and extended unemployment that cause them to get into financial trouble. I totally understand if that puts them in a precarious position where they must rely on borrowing. But 18 to 24% charge-offs by years end? That's far outside the range of unusual hardship and hints at irresponsible borrowing.


From a macroeconomic perspective, consumption is a cornerstone of our economy and vital for our economic recovery, as I said in response to Obama's stimulus package. Our economy thrives when people spend. But there is no such thing as a free lunch (except, of course, the free stock trades at Zecco Trading*). The economy got a boost for a period of time, but now it's taking a horrible beating and we're all paying for too-easy credit and excessive borrowing.


What are your thoughts on this? Do you think I'm being too harsh? Do you agree that one should be held responsible for his or her debts? Or do you think the banks deserve the blame?


Published Monday, June 01, 2009 5:57 PM by Jeroen Veth - CEO
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Comments

 

FreshPrince said:

Zecco is obviously having similar problem or they wouldn't have gone for the bait and switch model of Free***asterix***temporarily*** for the super rich*** trades plus a random charging of new fees. Maybe start a monthly contribution minimum so you can encourage responsible investing and bring back the real free. Hope you read this!
June 2, 2009 1:49 AM
 

swandive said:

Are you for real? Your lumping in all of these folks into one basket. Have you ever lost a job? Had to decide which bill to pay because your paycheck did not cover them all -  the mortgage,the electric or maybe that credit card that just jacked up it's rate another 10% or more on you? Gee - I wonder what the jobless number is going to be today? Another 500,000? 600,000? More? Climb down off of your high horse. That worker at GM who just lost is job did not drive the economy into the ground, but he is paying the price in a way you have obviously never experienced. Yet.
June 2, 2009 8:59 AM
 

ChrisCal said:

Bear Sterns, Lehman Brothers, AIG, are gone, every other bank is required to take government money because they too much money to people they should have known were bad risks. These are companies are staffed by hundreds of MBA and PHDs who are very sophisticated about finance. Yet they managed to tank their companies and general economy along with it.
Really how do you have any room to generalize about what a regular person who is looking for a job has to do. I know people who have been looking for a job for months. If they were a multi-national business, a high priced consultant would say, if you are short on cash and have no revenue coming in, conserve your cash by only paying essential bills. Not paying a credit card will only hurt your credit record, it won't cut your power, lose your car or get you evicted.
And credit cards are a suckers deal to begin with. Give me another loan product, in which one party is able to arbitrarily change the interest rate to anything they want, apply the balance to where ever they want, increase late fees and other terms to whatever they want and the other party is unable to do any of those thinga. . Your rhetoric would have gone unchallenged a year ago, but it's a different situation right now. I am using Zecco for it's low fees, but if that's your attitude towards consumers, I may look for someplace else.
June 2, 2009 12:39 PM
 

jonatbaylor said:

I'm tired of hearing how lending standards were loosened and all of these problems are because money was given to irresponsible people.

Maybe its the Banks that irresponsible? Most of these accounts that have been charged off were given to people based on ridiculous terms. Excessive monthly fees, yearly fees, maintenance fees and 'set up' fees where upwards of 70% of their initial buying power was eaten up by fees from the get-go.
Just because someone has a 400-500 score doesn't mean they are unable to pay their bills and trying to lay the blame on these higher risk pools is ridiculous.

Money was pouring into these Banks for years because of these outrageous fees that are constantly charged - no one complained about their profits during this 6 year period.

No my friends, its the terms in which the Banks made people sign up for. That can at least partly be blamed for the chargeoffs and bad debt.
June 2, 2009 3:10 PM
 

xinstar said:

interesting!
June 2, 2009 3:37 PM
 

surfkw said:

"I am using Zecco for it's low fees, but if that's your attitude towards consumers, I may look for someplace else."
ChrisCal, that is their attitude towards consumers, see the first post from FreshPrince to echo my sentiments.
June 2, 2009 4:22 PM
 

adamlarson said:

Jeroen,

I agree whole heartedly.  Certainly, WaMu made horrendous decisions, and they've received their due.  But the thought that a full 24% of such a large customer base would fall into delinquency is a bit startling.  Something more than WaMu's irresponsible lending is obviously afoot.  People are failing to honor their obligations, and no matter the reason (certainly there are very many valid ones), our country certainly won't be the better for it.
June 2, 2009 4:35 PM
 

petorama said:

What effrontery!  The demand for credit never changed over the last decade - only the banks standards for obtaining credit. It's Bush style audacity to blame the public for stupid business decisions on the bank's part. Then the banks refused to loan out any money for those horrible credit crunch months - all the while, the rest of us are pouring mortgage money into the banks - what a cash flow! Zero payout and billions being paid in. Wow.  Wish I could do that, but he Fed, the State, the banks, the corps - all be on my doorstep before the week was out. The banks whine to the public to help them out geez,  help them do what ?   Grab more money ?!   I can't believe that Zecco would make such a blunder as putting out that editorial. I guess the old Bush administration has a redoubt at Zecco.    

Tradeking is only $4.95 with no arrogance- they're looking cool.
June 3, 2009 7:49 PM
 

BearFacts said:

I recently went on line to check the status of America's corporate prison gang, including Andrew Fastow, Jeffrey Skilling, Dennis Kozlowski, and Bernard Ebbers.  I do not think any of these gentlemen premeditatedly planned to break the law; but if you were to ask how they came to break the law, the answer is quite simple: one day at a time.  

Many people who fail to pay off their credit card loans are in the same situation, and this also happened one day at a time.  

The problem is with our culture.  Almost everyone believes that he should enjoy a certain standard of living, and if that standard is not immediately attainable, then he simply assumes debt.  Government is no different. Faced with debt service equivalent to 75 percent of GDP, the United States will never pay off its debt, which leads many of us to speculate that US debt will be monetized by the Fed's creation of money.  The world is not happy with us, for destroying the value of America's debt is equivalent to imposing a huge tax on the rest of the world—and all who are holding US dollars.  The dollar will be replaced, if not by a single currency, then by a market basket of currencies.  The world will have no choice, and once the dollar's reserve currency hegemony is broken—the US economy will be in grave trouble.

I could not care less about investing to make a profit.  My plans involve translating dollars into forms of intrinsic value—mostly commodities and foreign equities  This may not sound exciting to some, but I would choose peace of mind above excitement.

Ninety-nine percent of the world makes less than $20,000 a year.  That's an interesting perspective.  I personally drive old cars, live in a comfortable but modest home, and think that life is good.  
June 3, 2009 9:40 PM
 

jcollyar said:

Interestingly enough, the credit card debt to which Mr. Dimon is referring is from the Providian Sub of Washington Mutual Incorporated. This is a company under the holding company's blanket that was wrongly sold to JPM. JPM only purchased WMB and WMBfsb, not Providian. Therefore, the credit card debt that JPM supposedly inherited, was actually wrongfully stolen. Please look into this guys, the whole WAMU situation is ridiculous, and JPM should not be portrayed as a hero for assuming credit card debt that they didn't pay for.
June 5, 2009 2:39 PM
 

K8TEK said:

We all know that Jamie has never struggled in life.  He is the CEO of a billion dollar company who takes home millions each year.  When the economy starts taking a crap, do you think they take a pay cut?  I had my insurance go up, my hours and my wages cut.  Of course you are setting in you million dollar mansion or on your million dollar yacht complaining about how your customers are hurting your bottom line?  You don't seem to be hurting at all.  Maybe you should take a pay cut, an hours cut or have your insurance coverage jacked up to 10% of your gross pay, then start bitching!
June 5, 2009 2:40 PM
 

Quicksilver said:

Are you starting to notice a common theme here Jeroen Veth?

If not, let me sum it up for you: You are out of touch with reality.

What gets you "fired up" is that the little guy has run out of money for you and yours to lie, trick and steal from them. As anyone who has funded his or her Zecco account knows, Zecco is tightly connected to Chase. It is no surprise to see you stick your foot in your mouth the way you have with this arrogant post.

The way the JPM Chase stole WAMU is absolutely criminal and in fact is being pursued as such in the courts as we speak. A quick summary of the facts should encourage you to look a little more closely at what you are getting "fired up about":

"At the time of seizure, Washington Mutual had $307 Billion in assets and was sold to JPMorgan for a mere 1.88 Billion dollars within hours by the FDIC. At the time of seizure, Washington Mutual Inc had 4 Billion dollars in a cash account, which has been recently laid claim to by JP Morgan.

In comparison, IndyMac, with only $32 Billion in assets was sold for $13.9 Billion in the following weeks. Indymac had only 33 branch offices as compared to Washington Mutual's 2,239 branches and 4,932 branded ATMs."

Your position Joroen is indefensible and is quite revealing of the distance that exists between your posh lifestyle and the reality that exists outside of it. Corporate criminals are the segment of our society that is doing the most damage to the USA (and the world) and it is they that are in the direst need of prosecution.

Let us hope that they receive it.



June 5, 2009 6:46 PM
 

dbellis said:

What happened to personal responsibility? You can't make somebody take a loan. C'mon! People charged more than they could afford plain and simple. Just because a bank gives you X amount of credit doesn't mean you have to use it. No excuses. They bought too much house and car also. Sure some people have real hardships for sure. But the real problem is people were not smart financially and now a lot of people are simply walking away from their obligations even though they could pay. You make a deal you should honor it. Period.
June 6, 2009 1:40 AM
 

Nobbler said:

You're right.  Both parties acted out of greed and are paying the price for it.  The only unfortunate group is the people caught in between who suffer while having no part in it.  
June 6, 2009 4:26 PM
 

shock market said:

I feel shame for you Zecco for supporting the main theif in US namely JPM. They screwed Lehman, Wamu and deceived everyone with their public relation officers by saying we saved the economy. Shame on you man. I am a Zecco customer and feel bad about you.
June 6, 2009 8:32 PM
 

mpeckert said:

It would be helpful if Zecco Inside Scope would learn to spell the CEO's last name.  His name is "Dimon" not "Diamond."
June 7, 2009 2:19 PM
 

Prags said:

Bank are equally responsible as the borrowers. I knew lots of students who got the credit cards to pay off their bills and larger than life lifestyle, while some of them knew that they wouldn't be able to pay it off at all. They all thought it was easy money on someone else's hard earned money. Someone pays when someone spends. This is a criminal act as far as hard working people are concerned.
June 7, 2009 5:23 PM
 

JeremyAlan said:

Interesting comments Jeroen.  I like to hear from you.  
June 8, 2009 3:00 AM
 

Jeroen Veth - CEO said:

Dear Swandive,

Thanks for your thoughts on the blog. You make a very good point. Don’t get me wrong, I completely agree that sometimes credit is the only way one can get by when dire circumstances hit, as I said above. The loss of a job, health issues, increasing fees as you say. I fully empathize with someone who loses their job or has to make terrible choices as to which bill to pay. I know these situations can be very stressful and I never meant to diminish them. I’m just saying that responsibility should be shared by the banks and individuals, particularly individuals who aren't experiencing hardship.

Best,
Jeroen
June 8, 2009 12:10 PM
 

Jeroen Veth - CEO said:

Dear K8TEK,

Thanks for your comments on the blog. I wanted to address some of your concerns. I actually did take a significant pay cut this year, as did many of the executives at Zecco. As you know, we are a relatively new company and therefore our salaries are nowhere near those of executives at other companies. I drive a Ford and live in a modest home. Please see my response to Swandive for further clarification on my thoughts.

Thanks!
Jeroen
June 8, 2009 12:11 PM
 

JeremyAlan said:

Jeroen,

I believe Chase tried to raise WaMu cardholders rates to 30% without a default event.  My brother got a notice in the mail saying they don't want to be in the credit card business.  Chase is sort of precipitating defaults by raising rates like this because balances grow too fast at 30%.  This type of interest can crush people but its okay when its not you who are subjected to it, and I don't mean to say "you" as in Jeroen Veth but any old person.  Chase is very viscious from what I heard.  My brother ended up paying the balance early in spite and they made less money as a consequence of their wanting to gouge.  You cannot kill your customer and charge obscence amounts.  Sure, you want a good profit but greed is too prevalent in the mentality of banks and the system.  Lending was no doubt predatory in the past few years and its everyone's natural response to not think these businesses aren't being responsible.  They are now raising rates on good borrowers to make up for their mistake of lending predatorily.                    
June 8, 2009 4:50 PM
 

lucasjkr said:

Has someone told you yet that you missed his name? It's Jamie Dimon, NOT Diamond. I stopped reading right there.
June 8, 2009 10:00 PM
 

vtatineni said:

irresponsible lending is indeed causing irresponsible borrowing.
the social and economical settings influence people. If I already hae 10K line of credit and if you offer 5k more, obviously I don't do my math first. I would assume that I was offering the credit b'coz of my new net worth. So, in a way card companies are luring people to use more than they can and it's ridiculous to blame them.

Bottom line if you see, the credit cards let people use the money which they don't have in hands. All the other 'benefits' are same as debit cards. It is a lending principle - If some one looses money big, it's the lenders mistake.
June 9, 2009 6:51 AM
 

moneyboy said:

Zecco, the key here is that our economy structure is a high percentage of spending based companies. No longer do we manufacture products to sell to the world.  With that in mind, how do we maintain our spending economy? You develop products that would encourage spending. But it’s not infinite, there is a ceiling and we hit it.  HARD!
June 10, 2009 1:35 AM
 

hedwards said:

This reminds me I have to cancel my wamu card, again. You'd think for that canceling a credit card once would be an indication that one doesn't wish to do business, but apparently not.

As for the Zecco bashing, give it a rest guys, we get that there's a small percentage of people here that are unhappy. Just leave already or at least stop whining. It's really damaging the signal to noise ratio around here.
June 10, 2009 1:47 PM
 

DoctorRockso said:

I don't think K8TEK was talking about you. Appears to be referring to Jamie Dimon. It was the switching of pronouns (from 'he' to 'you') that made it seem like he was speaking about you.
June 10, 2009 11:09 PM
 

eastwestms said:

I have Providian / Wamu / Chase credit cards.  When Chase started managing the credit cards, they sent out letters stating customers could NO LONGER paid MORE than the minimum amount if we had autopay.  Meaning Chase wanted the customers to pay more interest.  We wanted to "opt out" it required a letter.  When the letter was received by Chase, they would "then CLOSE the account" and I couldn't use the card anymore!

How GREEDY of CHASE!  

I have to now, submit my more than the minimum payment to them every month, individually.  And if I forget, they will raise my interest.  

So, don't morn for Chase Bank, lol
June 15, 2009 7:16 AM
 

agiannakou said:

Mr. whoever your name is, your article is nothing but well written
or thought.  Mr Jamie Dimon was rushing to grab any deal out there
Bear Stearns, WAMU and I do not know who else.  This is
the type of greed and irresponsibility that led us to this situation
that we are right now. Now you are telling me that people are
irresponsible and should honor their debts when the credit
card companies where driving to the ground every single household
in the U.S for the last ten years.  SHAME, SHAME, SHAME furthermore
I switch to you guys because you had free trades but I see that not
any more. Well my friend I am already looking for another brokerage
and keep your big customers.  I do not think that you deserve a
single penny.
June 15, 2009 11:59 AM
 

steev said:

i am in this sitation.  mortgage crisis hits and i go unemployed for 9 months.  my credit card rates went from 12-13% to 29%.  my debt was small and easily managed prior, then i started paying interest only basically, and the minimums on 3 of my small cards went up over 120$ more dollars a month , with my income going down by over double that.

id love to pay my debts and not carry guilt, but im paying interest only for a year straight, and the principal doesnt move.  i havent used the cards since 2004, i dont even have the actual cards anymore.
June 15, 2009 1:15 PM
 

Jeroen Veth - CEO said:

Thanks to mpecker and lucasjkr for pointing out my misspelling of Jamie Dimon's name. Let's call it a Freudian slip. Jeroen.
June 16, 2009 12:13 PM
 

*brwtrpilot said:

Did not JP swoop in with the help of the government
insider information and rip WaMu from the hands of
its management?
Did they not spend the time to do Due Dil.(oh I forgot they were busy stealing a Company with the help of our oh so trusted Government,)Look with all due respect it is the major fault of
the CCard firms who major goal is cash in no matter what.
The terms written is such small text that no one can read and
if you could would need a team of experts to understand, Set
themselves up for this mess. So let them eat it..
Do we have a responsibility to pay for our debts sure but heck God only ask for 10% who does the CCard firms think they are...
In due time the firms who charge a fixed term no matter what on the principle will rule the market. People will flock to them
like water in a desert.. The nation as a whole is so sick and tired of the underhanded smooth talking smoke and mirror
finance in all sectors... That is the reason for the economic
mess... Give people a clear picture of what they buying and how much it will cost and it will change the world... end of story.
and btw... changing the pricing @ zecco will cost you money in the long run... are your #s dropping..??? where are the improvements that were to come out at the first of the year...???? Hummmmm....
anyway that is my rant...
Brwtrpilot
June 18, 2009 4:00 AM
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